“Okay, I’m almost ready,” says Kelly Hogan. “I
was driving, waiting for your call, now I just have to pull over and find a
parking space.” She eases into a comfortable play-by-play: “I may just turn off
on this side street…almost there…well, why don’t you just go ahead and start to
talk?”
Hogan has, according to her hometown Chicago Tribune, “the range
ofa gospel belter, the phrasing of a jazz
diva, a bit of a country twang, and a taste for humor that make her something
of a difficult fit in these category-obsessed times.” If she’s tough to
pigeonhole into a genre – and she very much is – then it’s doubly tough to pin
down a category for The Flat Five, the Windy City super group she formed with
Scott Ligon, Nora O’Connor, Alex Hall and Casey McDonough. Their debut album, It’s a World of Love and Hope, drops
today on Bloodshot Records; fitting, as that label has always been home
to the genre-bending misfits of independent music. Ligon and McDonough are themselves members of NRBQ, a fluid band – founded 50 years hence – that has always
defied classification.
But, to take a stab at Flat Five
comparisons: Late 60s/early 70s harmony-laden pop with a slight bubblegum
flavor, reminiscent of The Carpenters, Beach Boys and Beatles. Some Manhattan
Transfer. Or maybe that’s a little off? “Yeah, it reminds me of
childhood, hearing the AM radio in the Rambler station wagon,” Hogan says. “All
of those sounds like Sly and The Family Stone, The 5th Dimension, Spanky and Our Gang…and
The Archies! Definitely The
Archies.”
Yeah, that’s better. And, oh, the harmonies; five parts’
worth sometimes. Groovy electric piano.It’s pure, unadulterated, unmitigated, undeniable joy. This can’t be overstated; it’s an album of existential
happiness, as the campy title suggests. Each of the album’s dozen songs were
penned by Ligon’s older brother Chris, and if you drill down a little into that
dude’s catalog, you’ll want to throw in They Might Be Giants and Dr. Demento when making
comparisons. As joyfully bouncy and bubbly as this record is, there’s also a
lot of downright quirky, head-scratching humor.
But the joy overrides all. You want to feel better right
now, when the whole country and world are spiraling downward into hades? Turn
off Twitter and Facebook. Turn off the news. Listen to this album a couple
times through, and you’ll be physically happy.
Heck, it’s impossible not to be happy after 20 minutes on the phone with “Leather
Lungs” Hogan, after she finds a parking spot. Her mood is as infectious as The
Flat Five’s music.
You’ve worn a lot of
hats in a bunch of different bands/side projects, etc. This Flat Five record
certainly has a distinctive flavor to it. How has working on this project
differed from, say, The Pine Valley Cosmonauts or any of your other endeavors?
Well, a lot of the things I did with Pine Valley Cosmonauts,
I was like a ninja. I’d come in real quick and record one song and be done. The
Flat Five, we’re a band. It’s gross. We love each other so much, it’s gross.
We’ve been doing this since 2005 or something. I started out playing with Scott
Ligon, then we got Nora O’Connor into it; I knew her from when we both sang in
Andrew Bird’s band. It just sort of picked up, like a rolling stone…wait, a
rolling stone doesn’t gather moss.
(Laughs) We snowballed, that’s what I mean to say.
We just really love to sing together. And even with our five
separate, crazy schedules and the stuff we do with other bands, we’ve always
made time for this. We just love it.
When did y’all decide
“Okay, we’re gonna do an album,” and how and when did that process finally come
together?
I guess a couple years in, we made a commitment to play
quarterly. That’s a time commitment and everybody has to block out time on
their schedules. We started talking about playing more often and how we would
do it. And we were warming up to the idea of doing an album of Chris Ligon’s
music, because we had already been doing several of his songs [live].
So that idea developed, and we all got really excited about it,
because one, we love his music and two, we want more people to hear it. So in
lieu of going door-to-door (laughs), we knew we needed to record. That required
us all to pledge allegiance to each other and commit. And so it’s taken us
right at two years; we first went into the studio in September 2014. We
financed the whole thing ourselves, so occasionally it was, “Well, we’re out of
money, so we gotta play a show.” And luckily we were able to record it at our
drummer’s studio, and he engineered it. There was just a lot of goodwill and
teamwork involved.
This album bubbles up joy. Can you describe how much fun it was to
record?
We made a conscious decision as a band, led by Scott, that
we were gonna do a positive album. And I mean, I love sad songs. I’ve heard
great songs with awesome harmony, but it’s like “My baby died in December.”
(Laughs) So we tried to make it a cohesive thread, and all positive. Because
everything’s so heavy, you know? You
said “bubbles,” and not every song sounds effervescent, but the material and
the message are designed to lift people, you know? Mavis Staples just did that
on her last album.
And we were trying to decide what to call this record, and I
said, “Dude, let’s just go for positive broke and call it ‘It’s a World of Love
and Hope.’” In the face of all this evidence to the contrary; there’s so much
going on to be sad and mad about. And all of us in the band, we’re all mad and
sad and scared. This is just a little respite. I mean, I’m on the street in
Chicago. The trees have colored leaves and people are walking their dogs…it’s
Halloween. That’s just as real as all the bad stuff.
I just…well, I’ve never heard anything like it.
Well, we are weird, you know…
(Laughs) Well, I
don’t mean just because it’s a little off and has some tongue-in-cheek…
…People try to describe us. Right now Nora and I are trying
to book a tour and folks ask us, “Well, what kind of band are you?” And we’re
like, uhhhhhhhh, well…
I think we’re like a pack of Life Savers. You’ll get an
orange and a lime, and all the different flavors. We just love it all; we love
all kinds of music.
Do you have a favorite cut on the album?
(Pauses) Uh…gosh I don’t know. It’s so hard for me to pick
from all the different flavors. I don’t think I do. I can’t pick a favorite
puppy! I love them all, and they are all different. Some of them were more
difficult to get right in the studio than others. I do love the magic of “Bug Light.” I like “Bluebirds in Michigan;” I love that really weird string/bass/flute arrangement.
I’m curious, and this
is a Kelly Hogan-centric question. I discovered you as the voice of Cassie
Gaines on DBT’s Southern
Rock Opera. Do you hear that
every now and again, maybe from folks down South?
Oh! Awesome. I love that’s the case; I really love that
album and I love those guys so hard. But yeah, a few, a few, definitely. That
always makes me feel so proud. We did that at (Mike) Cooley’s house and I was
in the dining room with a microphone, drinking a PBR and they were all in the
kitchen. I finished a take and I heard some screaming and I found out they were
screaming because they liked it. That
was really cute.
That album…well, “Angels and Fuselage” makes me weep to this day.
Think about how hard it is to sing it! Because I sit in with
them sometimes, and I try to do it – like every song I do – like I’m living it.
And those lyrics…it’s just such an honor to be on that record. And you know,
hearing your Southern accent, I’m just leaning into it because I love those
accents so much. Any excuse to call Patterson (Hood), I’ll do it, just to hear
that voice.
What else would you like folks to know about It’s a World of Love and Hope?
Um, it’s definitely an album made by friends who really love
singing together. We love it so much we’ve all made time to do it over the last
dozen years. We’re the kind of band that will practice together for seven hours
and it seems like seven minutes. I mean, if we were at a club to play a show
and nobody showed up, we would still play
the show! We do this because it’s so much fun. And that’s the spirit It’s a World of Love and Hope was made
in.
Because it is a
world of love and hope. Sometimes I might be feeling really shitty (giggles)
but I’ll just say, “It’s a world of love and hope!” It’s become my mantra. It
was made by five friends who can’t
not do this. And I hope people can
hear that in the record.
Final note: I’ve not
played an album over and over like this one in recent memory and subsequently
tried to figure out why. I’m still not sure, but what’s exceptional is this
wonderful Venn diagram of the underappreciated Chicago music scene. In fact,
when you put elite-level talents like these together – all of whom share such a
passion for the craft and an unselfish love for one another – greatness
shouldn’t be surprising. –JKB
-----------
It's a World of Love and Hope is available today on iTunes, Amazon, Bandcamp, etc.
But it was Woods’ across-the-board authenticity – on stage
and off – that impressed me. The dude is real. July saw him fine-tuning a bunch
of heavy country songs that make up
the album How to Survive, released
today on his own label, Lonely Ones Records. Did I mention that these are heavy
songs? Just to make sure, I compared notes with the Boss Man. “If you'd rather
be lied to or be sold a rosy view of life and love, you'd best steer clear of
Matt Woods,” said Trailer. “His confessional lyrical style pulls back the
curtain on the heartaches and struggles of real life.”
And, Bingo. While his previous two albums, The Matt Woods Manifesto and With Love From Brushy Mountain, were
sprinkled with a hearty mix of story songs, murder ballads and love songs,
today’s release is all about relationships. There are some aspirational love
songs, but it’s weighted down with heartbreak – and reality. When you hear “To
Tell the Truth,” or “Born to Lose,” there’s no question that these songs are both
autobiographical and from a dark place. And it’s not insignificant that the
song Woods says is truest to him – “A Good Man” – is a soul-crushing
confessional; so much so that it took some coaxing for that to be divulged.
We caught up with Woods out in the west Texas town of El
Paso, and talked songs for the downtrodden, dark thoughts of bodily harm to
percussionists, and how being covered by Dean Ween is a dream.
One of your earlier albums is
called The Matt Woods Manifesto. That
strikes me as both an awesome and ballsy concept. For our readers unfamiliar
with your work, what flag were you planting, and were you satisfied by the
reception?
Yeah,
I was definitely happy with the reception. I had spent a good many years
bouncing around in rock ‘n’ roll bands. That record came out in 2011, and I
guess it was sometime around ’09 that I realized I was gonna move away from the
bands and start working on things under my own name. And what partly informed
that was my writing, which was taking itself in a different direction. That led
me to getting back to my roots, and back to my love of country music.
That’s why I did the Manifesto; it was a departure point.
Having listened to some of
your work, I think I have a good idea, but who are some of the songwriters
who’ve influenced you?
I’ve
been influenced by a great number of people in one way or another.The easiestto name, over the life of my writing, have been Kris
Kristofferson and John Fogerty. I’d also have to give a nod to Steve Earle,
Townes Van Zandt and Guy Clark.
You’re like the
eleventy-billionth artist about whom I’ve said, “WTH isn’t this person on
radio?” Without going too deeply down that rabbit hole, when did murder ballads
and cheatin’ songs go the way of the dinosaur, in the minds of Nashville suits
and program directors?
As
far as mainstream country is concerned, I think that all started happening in
the late 1980s and early 1990s. At that point you could still find some music
that still used what would be considered traditional country themes. But it was
also sort of the birth of…party country. You know, “everything’s alright and
let’s just have a good time.” That’s when things started leaning that
direction.
You’ve done some really good
murder ballads. How To Survive is
made up – except for “The American Way” -- almost exclusively of relationship
songs. Did you go at this album
thematically, or did it just organically evolve that way?
It
did happen organically, but there’s a certain theme. We were going for a more
intimate deal, and it’s a more introspective album as it turned out. Any time I
go into the studio to record an album, there are always more songs than can fit
on it. So you’re trying to take the best ones and make them fit together into
one thing, instead of just a collection of songs on a piece of wax.And I try to keep that in mind and pair
songs together that complement one another.
Some noteworthy artists have
addressed the disenchanted/disenfranchised, hard to re-adjust veteran. Isbell
did it a couple times, McMurtry hit a chord with “Can’t Make it Here” a dozen
years ago. Steve Earle did it with “Johnny Come Lately” in 1988. Describe your
approach to “The American Way,” because that song hasn’t been secret, and the
video’s been out there a while. Obviously there was some deep meaning for you.
Yeah,
we released that video on the Fourth of July. I started working on that song in
the summer of 2015. For me, it’s just the state of the union. It reflects parts
of my childhood in rural East Tennessee in the 80s and 90s, and how things just
sorta stay the same, you know? I wanted it to be a snapshot of how things are
for blue collar people; folks who are just trying to live.
The album hits all the bases:
love songs of the aspirational, affirming or cheatin’ type, and even a
heart-stomping I don’t love you song, “To Tell the Truth.” They’re all pretty
sad & heavily laden with minor chords. I assume this was purposeful?
Yeah,
I uh, I feel pretty comfortable working in a minor key, and I’d say I
definitely do that more often than not. I think there’s something about the
minor keys that definitely ring a little truer…well, maybe “truer” isn’t the
right word. Maybe “profound.” I think songs in minor keys strike people more
profoundly.And as such, maybe, I
think they can give folks something a little more concrete to hold onto.
There
are plenty of good traditional songs with the 1-4-5 progression, but I think
it’s the sad ones, the ones in minor keys, that people keep going back to.
And you definitely lean
toward the sadder stuff here; granted I’m new to your body of work, but it
seems like there’s even more of an emphasis on How to Survive.
I
don’t know, I always tend to lean toward the more downtrodden, darker side.
Even on a lot of my story songs…well, there are more story songs on my last two
records, and some of them do come at you with an upbeat feel. But these are definitely from the darker
side of things.
Is this album serious empathy
across the board, or autobiographical? Maybe a little of both?
It’s
fair to say it’s a little bit of both. It’s certainly a little autobiographical. And it’s a good bit more introspective
and personal than the last two were.
Is there one
song that’s more autobiographical than any other on the album?
Oh, man. Ha. That’s a difficult question. (Lengthy
pause.)
You’re free to take a pass,
and that’s fine. But I mean, I can see several candidates. It ain’t like you
just made all this stuff up…
(Laughing)
Yeah. I know…there’s certainly some real shit in it. And some of it has to do
with stuff I promised myself I wasn’t gonna talk about in the course of
promoting this record, so…
Okay, that’s cool. And as we
move away from this question I’d just observe that there are several
songs…well, “Fireflies” is certainly inspirational and aspirational.I’m guessing there were some songs that
were hard to write. Looking at “To Tell The Truth,” I don’t think that song was
written in a vacuum. Is that fair?
Yeah.
That’s fair. That one’s got pieces of me in it, but they’ve all got pieces of
me in them…
Okay. We can
move on…
…man,
this is hard to talk about, hard to say. But I’d say the most telling one on
the album is “A Good Man.”
Structurally, you place your
bridges as points of emphasis, often in different spots. Do you have any kind
of guiding philosophy in that regard?
My
guiding philosophy, I guess, is just to be efficient. I don’t tie myself into
any formulaic songwriting. You know a lot of folks are all about verse/chorus; verse/chorus; bridge/chorus;
out. With me sometimes they fall that way, sometimes they don’t; I try not
to be superfluous…I try not to fill the time if it doesn’t need to be filled,
you know? If I’ve set up what I needed to with one verse and it’s time to get
to that poignant/conflict part of the song maybe I’ll go ahead with the bridge
right there. It just depends on what the song calls for. But yeah, I look at the bridge as really
being the heart of the song.
I’d like to switch gears for
a minute and ask you about the inspiration for some of your songs. You made a
couple references at the Atlanta gig in July; for instance, I believe “Bed
Sheets” is something of a send-up of one Conway Twitty. Expand on that a
little.
Sure.
I think “Bed Sheets” is really the only sexy-time song on this album (laughs).
And there was actually a point as I was finishing it up where I was like, “Man,
can I say this? (Laughing) Am I going
too far?”
But
I’ve always been a fan of Conway’s, and that was what I thought: “Well, shit,
here’s a man who had no qualms about taking a song into the bedroom.” And I was
coming to terms with the fact that I’m probably the same age as he was when he
was on Hee-Haw when I was watching as
a kid, you know what I mean? I told this story in Atlanta. I remember watching Conway, sweatin’ under
those stage lights with one of those skinny 1970s microphones, singin’ bedroom
songs. (Laughing) And I was old enough to realize, “Well, shit. Maybe I need to
do some of that,” you know?
Back to the Manifesto, was
writing “Port St. Lucie” a reasonable alternative to doing bodily harm to a
former drummer? Am I remembering that correctly?
Yeah,
man. One of those bands I was in, we were on the road and had van trouble in Port
St. Lucie. You know…being in a band, it’s good and it’s frustrating all at the
same time. You start bands with your buddies and…you see how far and how much
you can damage that relationship (Laughing), how much you guys can just damned hate each other.
Out of boredom?
No,
not out of boredom. You know, when you’re young, it takes you a while to figure
out that everybody has their own set of priorities and interests and
quirks…eating habits and drinking habits and everything else. And trying to get
all that to work together is sometimes a struggle, especially if you’re in a
band with a bunch of dudes.
And
not to ruin the illusion, but rock ‘n’ roll ain’t that glamorous and there’s
not much money in it. You go for a stretch of time of sleeping on couches
covered in cat hair and not making any money, and something’s gotta give. We
had that van stuck in Port St. Lucie with no shows to play, and it was about as
hot as it could get in Florida in August. And I just realized, “Man I gotta get
out of this situation before I kill this damn drummer. (Laughs) And I’m sure he
had his own thoughts on the situation, you know.
I’m glad we got a nice song
out of it, instead of tire-tool justice in Southwest Florida. You produced this
album. Was that the first time producing your own work, or anybody else’s?
No,
I’ve produced all of my albums. And recently I got to produce an album for my
buddy Jeff Shepherd and his
band the Jailhouse poets. We got them into the studio in Knoxville and it was
really cool to be able to work with them. I really enjoy it, and just like
being in the studio and want to be able to do some more of that in the future.
I see Jeff sang
backup on “Bound to Lose.”
Yeah,
he actually wrote that song with me. Jeff and I were on tour together in the
Spring of 2015. We were on our way to Florida, and damned if it didn’t snow all
over Mississippi. (Laughing)
You recently pulled up stakes
from your native East Tennessee & moved to Nashville; I think you and
Chelle Rose might have passed each other? Was that a move for convenience’s
sake?
Yeah,
Chelle and I apparently traded spots.Not really convenience, man. I’m from East Tennessee, I love it there,
and I’ve spent the last 22 years in Knoxville.But for the last five, I’ve pretty much been on the road about
ten months out of the year. Circumstances came about that enabled me to sell my
house, and once I had done that I didn’t see the need to just start over in
East Tennessee. So I just took advantage of that; Nashville’s a happening town and
there’s a lot going on there.And
it’s at least as well positioned for touring as Knoxville is.
Word has it you’ll be touring
with a full band this fall. How long has it been since you did one of those?
I’ve
been doing some band touring about twice a year. I try to take a band out on
the road during the spring and fall, and the last one was in May. I had some of
the same dudes with me I’ll be taking out this fall, and this one will be
fairly extensive; it’ll be about six weeks covering the eastern U.S.
Lightning
Round:
Have you ever
been in a joint and heard someone cover one of your songs?
I
have. I did just get word from a friend of mine who was at Adam Lee’s and Josh Morningstar’s show in Detroit last
night that Josh played one of my songs. And something that really tickled me, I
don’t know if you’re a Ween fan, but I met Dean Ween in Pennsylvania and he let
me know through social media that he had covered one of my shows at his standing
gig. So I’ve been covered by Dean Ween!
The one person in the Outlaw
Country/Alt.Country scene you’d love to work with one day?
(Pauses)
Man. I’d love to sit down and write songs with Jamey Johnson. I think he writes
really sharp songs.
An artist you’d
recommend to all your fans?
I
don’t know if you’re familiar with Sam
Lewis; he’s pretty fantastic. He was living in Knoxville when I met him,
and at that point he would have been in his really early 20s. He was writing
really sharp songs and performing them really well. I guess he’s been in
Nashville six or eight years and starting to get the recognition he deserves.
You said in an interview, with Riki Rachtman of all people, that you didn’t really like the term “outlaw country.” How would you
describe your music?
Aw,
man. I guess I’d call it Southern…American…songwriting? (Laughs) How about
“Appalachian heartbreak music?” Let’s go with that.
I love this! I’m learning new
terms all the time, and they’re all so fluid. Describe touring with Austin
Lucas.
Fantastic.
Touring with Austin was fantastic. We had been trying to get something together
for years, and we were finally able to make it work last summer. He’s just
immensely talented, and so kind and thoughtful. I had a great time with him,
and running around with Sally the dog was great, too.
The ubiquitous
Sally. Top five albums of all time regardless of genre?
Alright.
I’m glad you hit me with this earlier, because that’s a moving target. I got it
down to seven, so I’ll give you the five.
Tell you what,
then, let’s make it top seven.
Guns
‘n’ Roses, Appetite for Destruction. Randy
Travis, Storms of Life. Kris
Kristofferson, The Silver Tongued Devil
And I. Any Creedence Clearwater Revival album. (Laughs) If I only get one,
I’d go with Chronicle, a greatest
hits record with about 20 songs on it. Pearl Jam’s 10.
As I
was thinking through that list, there are a couple on there I haven’t listened
to in a while, but there are a couple others I can’t imagine being without: Two
Cow Garage’s Sweet Saint Me, and
Glossary’s Better Angels of Our Nature.
Why is How To Survive your best work?
I
think the simple answer to that is I’ve been able to apply everything I’ve
learned thus far (in my career) and apply it to this album. I think if you
release a record and you don’t think it’s the best one you’ve ever done, then
you’re not doing your job. With How to Survive,
I think because of its introspective nature, there’s something in there
that just about everybody can relate to.
Writing
love songs is not something I typically do a lot of, but there’s some of that
mixed in with all the heartbreak. What it lacks in story songs and murder
ballads, I think it more than makes up for with truth and emotion. At least I
hope that’s how people perceive it.
It might strain credulity that a couple guys shy of their
fortieth birthdays would be considered elder statesmen of a music scene.
Unless, of course, their last name is Braun. Reckless Kelly’s Cody and Willy
Braun have a musical
pedigree that’s genuinely hard to fathom. Grandpa Musty was a roadhouse
piano player & singer in rural Idaho who in his childhood learned to play
accordion from a neighbor named Lawrence Welk. Father Muzzie toured the
Mountain West with his brothers before forming Muzzie
Braun & The Boys, a western swing band featuring his four sons.
Practically before they were out of short pants, brothers
Cody, Willy, Micky
and Gary had played the Opry and Johnny Carson, and opened for the likes of
Haggard and Cash. So, yeah, it makes sense that Reckless Kelly – two decades
into a professional music career – are viewed as an institution in the (pick
one) Red Dirt/Texas Country/Roots Music scene.
Sunset Motel, the
band’s 11th album and their first on the Thirty Tigers label,
premieres Friday, and it’s what anyone familiar with them has come to expect:
tight instrumentation and arrangements; damn near perfect lead vocals from
Willy that fit just as snugly in a plaintive ballad or driving rocker; and the
kind of comfort level found in a pair of 10-year-old Justin ropers. It is –
like seemingly all their records – vintage Reckless Kelly. It’s what they do.
We caught up with Willy (young for a musical greybeard at
38) while he chilled in Austin in advance of an upcoming East Coast tour.
Topics included longing for the days of big-hatted musical clichés, a new
record label and the state of the country music industry, and the virtues of
turning off the water whilst brushing one’s teeth.
Your brother Cody
mentioned through your publicist that you wrote “30 or 40” songs for this
album, y’all recorded 20 of them, and 13 made the final cut. Sounds like at
least another album’s worth of tunes are at the ready; is there any chance of
y’all going Physical Graffiti, so
those outliers are on a future album?
Yeah, there’s quite a few that we ended up recording that
weren’t too bad you know, that turned out good, and we just had too many to put
on one album. That’s kinda the first time we’ve ever really done that. We’ve
had a couple leftover songs in the past, we’ve never had that many. There’s
probably gonna be a collection of kinda outtakes, demos and stuff like that
somewhere down the road. We’re not sure. We were kinda thinking about doing it
for our 20th anniversary, but that’s this year, so we missed that
boat. (Laughs) We might do it in a few years or something
like that. There’s some stuff that’ll probably get seen.
Over what time period did you write these songs?
Well, let’s see. I started writing I guess maybe not long
after Long Night Moon came out which
was September 2013, so between then and about a year ago, I was writing kind of
up until we went into the studio this spring but I wasn’t doing a lot after
maybe last summer. Kind of got the bulk of it out of the way.
Reckless Kelly is one
of those bands with an unmistakable sound. I mean, within a couple of measures of the intro, then a
couple more with your voice, it’s “Well, that’s a Reckless Kelly song.” Y’all
have your own distinct style. How, if at all, would you say Sunset Motel is different?”
Man, I think it’s probably just a little more the modern
version of the band. We’ve been doing it for about 20 years and we never really
wanted to stray too far from what the people liked about us in the first place.
But you can’t go making the same record over and over, so you have to slightly
reinvent yourself every time; try to write about different things. Like I said,
you don’t want to go too far off the rails because you know that’s what got
people involved in the first place. I don’t know, it’s kind of hard to put your
finger on that Reckless Kelly sound, it’s just 5 guys who’ve been playing
together for a long time, it’s just something that’s evolved over time. It
changes a little bit every year, probably, but nothing really too fast.
I want to get into a
couple specific songs and then jump around some.First, “Radio.” There are some brief snippets of songs at
the very beginning before things crank up, and they’re just too quick for me to
pinpoint.Are one or more of them
y’all, sounds like there may be a girl too? This is uber-trivial, but I’m
curious.
Actually, none of them are us. It’s the people that came
into the studio, we had a few guest musicians on the record. A couple of people
came in and we recorded some stuff that didn’t end up making the album. We
thought it’d be cool, we wanted to do like a radio thing… we thought it’d be
cool if we used our friends who were kinda on the record so …it’s a Mickey
& the Motorcars song “Tonight We Ride.”
Mickey and a couple other guys from the Motorcars came in
and played some acoustic guitars on a couple of the tracks. Then there’s a
Rosie Flores tune on there. She didn’t end up actually being on this record, but
we cut a version of “Wild Horses” with her and Keith Gattis ‘cause they bopped
by one day and we were just messing around. So the Keith Gattis song on there
too, his version of “El Cerrito Place,” I think it’s the first one you hear. And
Chris and Eleanor Masterson also, Eleanor played a bunch of strings and fiddle
stuff and Chris did a guitar part on “Sad Songs About You” so there’s a little
piece of a Mastersons song on there too.
I should probably
know this, and a better reporter would have researched this better, but where
did y’all record this and who produced it?
We produced it ourselves. My brother Cody, and Dave, our
guitar player, and I have pretty much produced the last 3 or 4 records we’ve
done. We recorded it here in Austin at Arlyn Studios. That’s the studio we made
our first record at 20 years ago…they were kind of… they weren’t closed down
but they were doing more like editing and video production for a long time and
they just reopened the studio as a recording studio. It was kind of cool to go
back there and kind of revisit the past a little bit.
I interpret the song
as somewhere between tongue-in-cheek/good humor and a big ole middle finger to
Nashville. Where would you put it on the continuum? Or am I just missing it
completely?
No, you’re right, it’s tongue-in-cheek and …it’s not really
so much of a middle finger to Nashville. It’s kind of more, it’s making fun of people
in Nashville but not just Nashville, kind of kids today, for lack of a better expression. Any genre you want to
talk about, there’s gonna be kids who don’t really do their homework, didn’t really
put the time in that it takes to become a really good musician. A lot of people
these days think you can learn 3 or 4 chords, and write 10 songs, and make a
record and then you’re a rock ‘n roll star.
Well, they’ve got a bit of a point. Sad freakin’ thing…
(Laughs) Yeah. But
the guys that we looked up to looked up to guys before them, and they did their
research and learned about…you know… we’ve played in jam sessions with people
sometimes and they don’t know any Merle Haggard songs, and we’re like man how
did you even get to this point where you’re playing guitar in front of people and
you can’t play anything but like the six songs that you wrote. Just kind of
blows my mind.
I heard somebody one
time, I wish I could remember who it was, on the Buddy and Jim Show on Outlaw Country (Sirius XM). It was an old
songwriting hand and he said “You know, it used to be you’d go to Nashville and
they’d audition you with a tape recorder and now it’s like they’re doing it
with a video recorder.” I thought that summed it up pretty well.
Yeah, it’s kind of amazing, there’s just so much competition
and so many people out there these days, YouTube and things like that, where it
seems like the bar has been lowered really far. It’s weird for guys who grew up
playing music and really respecting the people who came before us …and worked
really hard to learn how to play and write and sing, and I’ve been doing it for
a long time and then to see people who don’t really have the respect for history
– the craft…
Seems there are
certain facts of life for acts like Reckless Kelly. Does it still just rub
y’all the wrong way that bands with actual integrity and quality songwriting
aren’t gonna see the airwaves, but for Sirius XM?
Yeah, that’s a bummer you know. It’s been going on for a
long time. Our first album Millican,
I wrote a song called “Hat Acts” about the Nashville ‘hat acts.’ That was 20
years ago and it was kinda focused on what I used to call cliché country when people were writing a song all based on a pun
on a cliché, which seemed like the thing. Twenty years later I wrote another
song about it and that’s “Radio.” Looking back, it’s kind of funny, the guys
that I wrote “Hat Acts” about seem like awesome artists at this point. I’m
always like “Man I’d take those guys over the crap that they’re putting out
now.”
Now it’s like you
ought to do one called “Backwards Ball Cap Acts.” You can use that, by the way.
I might, might have to update that one. You know, you really
can’t get too annoyed with it. The bummer is that there’s a lot of guys in
Nashville, everybody kinda picks on Nashville, but there’s so many great
musicians and songwriters and artists in Nashville that you’ll never hear of,
just because the mainstream thing is getting crammed down everybody’s throats.
Kinda bugs me when people say “Fuck Nashville” or “Nashville sucks” because
you’re only seeing like five percent of what that town has to offer. There’s
some similarities between that and the Texas scene. The more and more people
that start to play music down here …the cream’s gonna rise, but sometimes the
people that are making more money are going to get more attention than guys
that have more talent.
Y’all recently found
a new home with 30 Tigers, a label that just keeps stockpiling more and more
quality talent.How important was
the label’s stability and commitment to y’all retaining your independence when
y’all made the decision to sign with them?
We started our own label a couple years ago and got a couple
records out on it now. We took everything in house for a long time because it
seemed like the way the industry was moving, and the fact that we could do a
lot of stuff on our own, and keep a little more of the dough is why we did
that. But this record, we early on recognized that we’re kind of proud of it
and thought there were some good songs. We’re getting to the point where it’s,
you never know when people are actually going to stop making records these day.
‘Cause people aren’t buying music anymore and we’re kind of thinking this may
be one of our last opportunities to make an actual record that people will buy
a physical copy of.
We might be able to get a couple more out of it, but who
knows? So we were thinking that this might be a good opportunity to give one
more try with a major distribution deal. Those guys have a great track record
with bands like us that are sort of outside the norm. The guys that they’ve got
on their roster had some real good success with people like that that fit into
the same ‘straddling the fence’ category that we’re in. We figured it’d be a
good fit so we’re gonna give it a shot and see how they do. Won’t know until it
happens, but so far so good. They’ve been on top of everything and they’re easy
to work with. I think it’s gonna help us out.
And you’ve mentioned
that the band is now in a place where y’all aren’t “killing yourselves to pay
the bills.” Can you point to a time in your career that you realized that was
the case? When did you know y’all could relax a little bit?
It kind of happened over a long period of time. Back in the
old days, we’d play every night, six
or seven nights a week. The older you get and the more miles you get traveling
around… really we were trying to just tour smarter, so we’re not going out and
beating our heads against the wall playing gigs that really weren’t paying off,
whether financially or exposure-wise. It took us a while to figure out how to
do it, but we basically just wanted to cut those gigs out, or as many of them
as we could and focus on the ones that mattered, the ones that got us in front
of people or some exposure or paid well. It’s kind of a tricky thing to do, and
it’s a lot easier said than done. We’re still working in that direction to try to
play less and make more and kind of maximize the exposure and make every gig
count. It’s a long process that we’ve been working on for years so it wasn’t
anything that we wanted to do overnight.
I have a couple of
fan boy questions to get out of the way. First, can there ever be a better
murder ballad than “Crazy Eddie’s Last Hurrah?” I mean, it’s perfectly
sectioned off: Cheatin’ and leavin’; drinkin’ and drunk-dialin’; and killin’.
I don’t know, that’s such a funny song to me. I probably
wrote that thing in less than an hour. Never in a million years would’ve guess
that that one was gonna be the big hit, the one that people talked about. It
still kind of blows my mind that people like that song as much as they do. It’s
kind of a throwaway song to me. I still like playing it, never really disliked
it, but I feel like I’ve got a lot better stuff.
There’s no doubt, but
when Sugar Hill put out the Best of Americana Series, I don’t think it’s
insignificant that the one live cut they put on there was that one. I just
think it’s fantastic.
Thanks man. Ragweed recorded that and that made it more
popular than we ever would’ve. They had a lot going on at that time. When they
put that on their live record , that gave us a little boost.
I noticed that too
and …you guys to me are like kindred spirits and you and Cody even sound alike
I think, singing. I think there are worse comparisons to be made. Also, has
there been an instrument invented that your brother can’t play? The Gourds had Max Johnston, Son Volt’s always had a
multi instrumentalist. It’s like y’all have two.How big an asset to the band is he?
He’s irreplaceable. He’s a great fiddle player, he’s a great
mandolin player, he can play harmonica and he’s learning piano and B3 right
now. It’s kind of surprising it’s taking as long as it is, because usually
…like, he doesn’t play guitar but sometimes he’ll pick up my guitar when it’s
just sitting there and then play better than I can and he doesn’t even claim to
play guitar and he doesn’t know any chords.
If he wants to pick out a solo, it sounds like he’s been
playing it for 20 years and it kind of pisses me off. Also, I think one of his
biggest assets, one of the things he brings to the table most is he’s such a
great harmony singer. He and I being brothers and singing for such a long time,
he can kind of fall into the pocket with me without even trying at this point. He’ll
put three or four parts on some songs. You know, whatever the song needs, he
really good about finding that right part or parts and not overdoing it, and
knowing when to overdo it. He’s definitely the best harmony singer I know.
Muzzie Braun, JR Cash, and future members of Reckless Kelly & Micky and the Motorcars, "at some county fair in Oregon many moons ago."
You and Cody have a
well-reported musical pedigree, and were serious about what you were gonna do
musically from an early age, getting your GEDs at ages 16 and 17. That’s
serious discipline and determination. Assess your career path to this point,
and do you still have some concrete, definitive things you want to accomplish
going forward?
We always knew we were going to be musicians. That’s what
the family business is, and we started playing music in dad’s band before we
even realized it. We did home schooling so it was kind of concentrated, so
that’s why we were able to get out of school a couple years early. Mom (or her
tutors) were only dealing with a couple of kids instead of 35. We were able to
do it a little faster than everybody else was. Our main goal starting out, and
still is, was to making a living at it.
Our dad always made a living doing it, and my grandpa did
and my uncles do, so it’s always just been something that …it’s more important
to us to make good music than it is to make money. Basically, our goal and our
focus is to make records we’re proud of, and put on good shows, and just be
able to make a living at it. And anything that comes on top of that is just
kind of gravy, you know. Then, there’s a bucket list of things of course. You
wanna play Madison Square Garden and Saturday Night Live and go on tour with
Bob Dylan, things like that. You never know if they’re gonna pan out but it’s
never too late to accomplish little things like that along the way.
K: Is there a band
out there whom y’all have opened for or toured with where you said “dadgum,
we’re opening for (fill in the blank)” and it was just awesome?
Yeah, we used to go out and do a lot of shows with Robert
Earl Keen and he kind of took us under his wing when we got to town, and I
remember thinking about that. When we were going up the east coast with him on
this 3 or 4 week run, hanging out with all those guys, and becoming friends and
every once in a while we’d get up and sing an encore with them or something. At
that age too, it’s quite a while ago, just kind of being in awe of their
company and their talent.
There’s been a few times where we got to record a couple
songs with Steve Earle one time. I remember listening back to the tracks, we
backed him up as the band on a couple of tribute tracks for a Warren Zevon
tribute and an Alejandro Escovedo track. Once we got done with that, we
recorded them in one day in Nashville. I never listen to our music very much
just because once it’s done, I’m kind of sick of it, but I sat and listened to
those two songs all night. Like I can’t
believe we backed up SteveEarle,
he’s always been one of our biggest influences.
Sunset Motel has that traditional Reckless Kelly balance between
rockers and ballads, but the bulk of the songs are about relationships. Is this
something you set out to do purposefully, or an organic thing?
You know, this record in particular I just had so many ideas
for songs that I didn’t get to use on Long
Night Moon ‘cause about halfway through Long Night Moon, I realized it was
all songs about traveling and I took that route and made a little bit of a
theme out of it. So I ended having a bunch of left over ideas and half-written
songs that were good, but were just in a different theme. I actually had a
bunch of leftover stuff that I wanted to use, and so I decided while I was
writing that I wasn’t going to push it in any direction whether it be ballads
or rockers or country, love songs, or break up songs, anything like that.
So there’s all sorts of different subject matters. I just
wanted to have all the best songs right off the top. We picked about 20 of
those, worked them up, and just kept whittling it down until the best ones were
the ones that made it on the record.
And let’s talk about
“Volcano,” (and I hope you don’t hang up on me or anything) your nod to the
issue of climate change. It’s
about as subtle as a punch to the throat…
(Laughs)
..and one of the
reasons I asked about the time for writing these songs is that we’re in an
election year, and a stranger and more polarizing one than normal…
…it’s nuts, man…
…so did that have any
bearing on the release of this song?
Actually, I’ve been working on that song for quite a while. I’ve
probably had, not even joking, like 15 versions of it, four different melodies,
and four different chord progressions. I kept tinkering with it for a long,
long time because I always liked the idea, and I loved the sound of the word volcano. My place up in Idaho where I do
a lot of writing is right across from the tallest mountain in Idaho, Mt. Borah.
There was an earthquake back in the 80s when we were kids and you can still see
this big fault line that runs across the bottom of the mountain where the
valley floor dropped like 8 feet and the mountain rose a foot or two.
So that’s where I got the idea for it and it kind of became
this song about climate change. Honestly, we’ve done a couple songs that were
political in the past and this …at the very last minute we decided to put it on
the record because I wasn’t sure I wanted to have this conversation over and
over and over. We knew if we did put it on the record, it was gonna happen,
that people would be asking us about it. The funny thing is we don’t really
want to be known as a political band, but you can only write so many songs
about …love songs, or breaking up with a girl, and “Volcano” just ended up
being …it sounds cool and I think the song is cool and it’s also a conversation
that I think people need to have. We kinda bit the bullet and decided to put it
on there and now that it’s out there, I’ve come to peace with the fact that
this is probably going to be just one of many political conversations we have
to have over the next six months or so.
With that in mind,
let’s break this down a little. It’s a catchy as hell song. At the beginning of
the song you say, “Not to question your beliefs, not to be rude,” then in the
second verse you take a lyrical blowtorch to anyone and everyone with an
opposing view. I mean, you seem to openly mock Christians with talk of “God’s
plan;” a “flat earth” mentality; “monkeys into man;” and imputing homophobia to
anyone not on the same side as you. That’s a pretty broad brush, isn’t it?
Yeah, I think so. I kind of opened the song with the punch
line from the old joke, you know, “the water’s cold, and deep too.” It’s saying
about this election, it’s literally a pissing contest. I feel like it’s
probably gonna piss a few people off. I remember when I was a kid, people used
to just throw their beer bottles out the window and that was just totally
acceptable. And now 30 years later, you can’t believe that people used to do
that. Some people would just dump their old cars in the river. I feel like may
in another 20 or 30 years down the road, we’re gonna be talking about this same
issue and people will be saying “Well God, I can’t believe people used to use
plastic water bottles.” A million different environmental issues that we could
go into. I just feel like, a little at a time, over the course of the next few
years, or several years even, people will probably start become more aware of
it as the problem keeps growing. Whether or not it’s a man-made thing or it
isn’t, there’s no harm in, you know, turning the water off while you’re
brushing your teeth.
(Laughing) I’ve done that since I was six, I’m from Alabama, and a
lifelong Republican.
So just in case, you know. Who knows if it’s gonna help or
not, but man. One of these days if we run out of water, you’re probably going
to think back on a lot of water that you wasted. Just for an example, you know
what I mean?
Is politics/policy a
big part of your life, and if so, has it always been? Or did it maybe rub off
on you, living in an enclave like Austin?
It definitely rubs off on you. This day and age with
Facebook especially, and Twitter, and that kind of stuff where that’s where
people get their news. Myself included, most people my age watch John Stewart
and John Oliver. I don’t consider myself a really political guy, mostly because
I don’t really like having political conversations with anybody that doesn’t
agree with me. It’s the same with religion, you’re never gonna change the other
guy’s mind. Never seen anybody have an argument about politics or religion
where the other person walks away with a new opinion. It’s always a fight. It’s
one of those things you’ve just gotta chip away at; you’re never gonna changes
somebody’s opinion with just one Facebook post, but maybe if they hear the song
30 times they might start turning the water off when they brush their teeth.
You mentioned in the
bio that y’all were part of the “second wave of the movement,” and that Trace by Son Volt had a big impact.
That’s a top-5 all time album for me, irrespective of genre. A couple questions
along that line. First, can you name a couple other albums for you that are so
impactful you’ll never stop listening to them?
Trace is definitely one of those. Guitar Town.That’s
always gonna be one of my favorite records. I was like 10 years old when I
heard that album and I don’t think I’ve ever been that impacted by a record
since that day. Still listen to it. Our old bass player Shifty and I sat in
back of our tour bus one day a few years ago and we – he had his bass and I had
my guitar – and just for shits we decided to see if we could play every song on
the record and without even thinking about it, we did. All of Guitar Town.
Wow.
We’d played a few of them before
of course, but we knew it that well. We’d
heard it that many times. We didn’t even have to look to see what song came up
next. It’s like that important of a record to us. That one, and then Billy Joe
Shaver’s Live at Smith’s Olde Bar was
another one we listened to a ton when we started the band. That combination
between Billy Joe’s lyrics, and his country voice, and Eddie’s just rock ‘n’
roll guitar made it like hearing a rock band play country songs, like it’d never
been done before. That was another huge record for us when we got started.
And if a generation
is roughly 20 years, I guess we’re in and around a new one right about now. Who
are some of the emerging artists, particularly in the Red Dirt/Texas Country
scene, who’ve grabbed your attention?
Let’s see, there’s a guy named Parker McCullom who’s, he’s
got one record out and I’ve only seen him play a few times, and met him a time
or two. He’s really good. I think he’s gonna make some waves. He’s a really
good songwriter, and he’s young, got a lot of talent, good singer, and all the
ladies love him …so I think he’s gonna go places. Let’s see who else is out
there right now… there’s a great band called Sons of Bill. They’ve actually
been around for quite a while at this point, but I still kinda consider them
up-and-coming. They’re great; I think they should be a lot more famous than
they are. Really great songwriters, and I love their production and the whole
ball of wax.
In the past couple years
there’ve been some artists getting mainstream acclaim and awards with virtually
NO airplay, and decent sales to boot. No thanks to Nashville, in other words,
Isbell, Sturgill & Stapleton are defying convention.Are these apparent outliers reason for
hope for the likes of Reckless Kelly?
Yeah, absolutely. It gives you hope to see somebody say with
no real support from the mainstream at all come and makes such big splashes.
You know, one minute, Sturgill Simpson was opening up for us out in L.A. and now
two years later, you’re watching him on Jimmy Kimmel, and Fallon.
Letterman…
Letterman, yeah. Watching his songs climb up the charts and
selling records, and selling out huge shows; doing two nights in a row at the
biggest venue here in Austin. It’s awesome. It’s great to see guys who have
some integrity and musical chops buck the system and make it work. And that
comes back to one of the reasons we decided to give Thirty Tigers a shot, because
they did so well with guys like him and Isbell. It’s good to know it still
could happen, you know.
What did you think by
the way, because you’re a pretty savvy social media guy… about Sturgill dropping
elbows? First about the naming an award after Merle, and then on Garden and
Gun… I thought it showed not only balls, but absolute integrity for him to say,
you know, what the hell?
It’s a ballsy move to say something just that out there and
honest, you know. I really respect what he said and how he said it. I think he’s
right when he says these guys, the same people who wouldn’t play Merle Haggard
on the radio or wouldn’t give him his last moment in the sun before he passed
away, are all of the sudden, you know it’s kinda like seeing all the Cubbies
hats all of the sudden. The Cubs are doing really well and everybody’s wearing
the hat.
You know, Merle Haggard dies and everybody’s playing Merle
all of the sudden; and some of us have been listening to him and playing him
our whole lives. It’s not annoying really because it’s great to see him get
recognized and obviously everybody’s bummed out that he’s gone, but it’s kind
of a little late to the party and then to take an award and put his name on it
and hand it to some of these people that he openly trashed.
And by the way I saw
Jason Isbell, his first tweet, he’s like I
don’t know what Sturgill said but I agree with him 100%. Then an hour later
he’s like oh, I saw what Sturgill said
and I still agree with him 100%.
(Laughs) That’s funny. I think he’s right on, and it’s a
ballsy thing to say, especially when he’s probably in line to win some of those
awards. He’s kind of biting the hand that feeds him but that’s kind of what
being an outlaw’s always been about. It’s what Merle would have done.
Finally, your new album is out Friday. What’s in the works for a tour
to support this record, and what are you doing next?
The first big tour we’ve got coming up after the album drops
is going up the east coast with Mickey and the Motorcars for a couple weeks. And
then right after that, Wade Bowen and I are going across the pond to England
for about 10 shows in November, just the two of us. That should be interesting.
And then, man, when I get back from that, I probably start writing again. We’re
not exactly sure what our next project’s gonna be; it’s either gonna be another
album or maybe a collection of outtakes and old stuff, like we were talking
about earlier. We kinda need to circle the wagons again and figure out what
we’re gonna do next ‘cause we’ve got a lot of ideas but just need to pick one.
