Hellbound Glory Goes Hollywood?

Friend-of-Farce and Washington State ne’er-do-well Leroy Virgil is expanding his media brand, and who better to chronicle the life of “fun-loving, free-wheeling sociopathic killer and fighter for the working class,” Bill Gohl?

And who among us doesn’t yearn for a cinematic rendering of a dude whose hobbies included shooting cows and killing people to steal their stuff? Hellbound Glory’s in the movie bidness, people, and we can all get in on the ground floor.

C’mon. Help Leroy out. If you were making a movie, he’d send you 20 bucks!

— KB

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Hellbound Glory’s Undertow

 

By Kevin Broughton

Well, this is certainly a new sound – and look – from FTM’s favorite scum-country progenitor, Leroy Virgil of Hellbound Glory. Frankly, folks, it’s not of this world. Not of this continent, anyway.

Virgil and ever-faithful steel player Chuck “Utah” Bradley crossed the Atlantic for an audio and video collaboration with the upstart Noise Music Group. The results are something to behold.

Seriously, my first thought on seeing the video was the opening phrase from my favorite HbG song, “Vandalism Spree:” You’re looking pretty as a picture…

We caught up with Neon Leon for our shortest – and sanest – conversation ever, about crossing the pond, making new friends, and what’s up next.

You described this song as “a new style for Hellbound Glory,” and that’s certainly the case, especially when one sees the video. You traveled to England for some sessions. First question, with whom, and how did this come about?

The song was produced and engineered by George Shilling and Paul Gorry. On one of their trips to America, they caught a show with Shooter and me at the Whiskey-a-Go Go in Hollywood back in about 2017. We corresponded via email from time to time, and I had told them I might like to come over there and record if they knew anybody in the business. It just so happened that they were getting ready to start their own label. So they invited me out, and we said “Fuck it,” and got on the plane and went over.

We’re headed back over there in July to record some more.

The production is really impressive. These Brits must be quite taken with you, the way you cleaned up for the video, huh? You look like you’d showered and everything.

(Laughs) Yeah, they do a lot of work with the fashion industry, too, so they know how to make people look good.

Oh, nice!

I didn’t clean up that much; just combed my fucking hair. They know how to get the right angles, I guess.

It seems frivolous on its face to ask about the inspiration for a song about drinking, but why don’t you take a stab at it? Where did “The Undertow” come from?

You know, it’s one of those songs you hear about that takes 20 minutes to write, dude. I had the melody in my head for a couple of months, just messing around with it. I just woke one morning with a hangover out in Reno, and just wrote. And there it was.

What key is it in by the way? I was trying to look at your hands in the video…you weren’t using a capo, were you?

No capo; it’s in the key of A, but it’s built around the F sharp minor chord, going back and forth with A and D.

How long since you’ve stepped out of your Shooter Jennings comfort zone?

Oh, wow. You know, I haven’t worked with anybody but Shooter…well, he’s produced all our albums since 2017. I do stuff on my own here and there that I produce on my own, but Shooter was the first real producer I worked with. For this session, Paul had the whole song mapped out in his head before I got there. All the arrangements he had written out on the computer.

He told everybody what to play, and all I did was sing…and I had the guitar solo. That was my part.

You said you’re heading back to England next month. Will you tour any while you’re there?

Yeah, I have a couple of festival dates and some club dates lined up; they really want to make something happen over there, along with their other band The Black Skies (seen in the video.) They hope to bring The Black Skies over to America at some point as well. But we’ve got a couple weeks’ worth of gigs.

Did you say something about a blues album in your future, or did I dream that?

Yeah, Shooter and I are looking to get back into the studio in L.A. toward the end of the summer, either August or September, and try our hand at a blues record; we want to see what we might accomplish in that genre. Which is cool, because blues and country are cousins. I’d like to try something more in that direction.

Cool. You got any songs?

Yeah, I’ve got a handful of songs written for that one, along with some classic covers from the 1920s and 30s.

Well, this new cut is a keeper, dude.

Thanks, buddy. Talk soon.

***

Bonus media:

Those high-brow, artsy Brits made a mini-documentary of HbG’s time in England. Watch it at your leisure here:

Monday Morning Memes: Luke Bryan, Kane Brown, Dolly Parton

The Quirky Demise of Hellbound Glory

By Kevin Broughton

The report of my death was an exaggeration.

-- Samuel Clemens, May 31, 1897, London

We are mere journalists. We acted in good faith, relying on the reportage of one of the finest country music blogs, which sounded the alarm: Hellbound Glory is doomed yet again. Neon Leon is killing off this..whatever-it-is thing, and once more on Halloween. Just six years after he’d done it the first time.

The notion seemed so unfair. Hellbound Glory had just put out two stellar albums, with the help of Shooter Jennings’s picture-perfect production. Could this be happening again? We’ve chatted up the enigmatic Leroy Virgil twice, here and here, so surely we can clear this up. Right?

Yeah, sure. 

The suspect was last seen in Aberdeen, Wash., bound for Reno, Nev. Contact this site’s publisher with any clues. 

Okay, so you’ve done this once before. What gives, with snuffing out this band name again? 

Well, um, I didn’t really say we were snuffing out the band name; it’s more of a ritualistic killing of the Hellbound Glory myth. (Laughs)

…okay.

Whatever “Hellbound Glory” is. 

So, “whatever it is” and “soon-to-be was” will be no more?

Well…I don’t know. We killed it off once, and it didn’t go anywhere. I don’t even know, man. I don’t have a plan, and I don’t even know what’s going to happen.

Um, okay. Let’s flesh this out with a few questions…

I’m making it up as I go along.

Fancy that.

Last time around, you even dumped your assumed name, Leroy, for your given one, Leon. At least for a little while. In fact, what should I be calling you right now? Do I have to change your contact info in my phone? 

(Laughs, hard) Well, I don’t know what your contact info says.

It says, “Leroy Virgil.”

Yeah, well, I’ve always liked “Leroy.” I picked that name. It’s a good one. I like “Virgil.” That was a name that was picked for me. And…my last name is “Bowers.”

I know. I remember all the sh*t you’ve said to me. I’ve recorded all of it, then written it down. 

For both Pinball and Pure Scum, “Hellbound Glory” was essentially you, a steel player sometimes named Rico, and Shooter’s band. Was that configuration just not getting it done, or is it just something about the name?

Well, you know, Rico had to go; he had a baby, and…

Yeah, he “knocked some chick up,” as you said last time…

…yeah, he had to go take care of that, and I’m not sure where he is right now. I did give him a van to live in. The Hellbound Glory van, in fact. I hope he’s doing okay; I haven’t heard from that dude in a long, long time. Last time I saw him, he was in Reno, trying to get out near Salt Lake City. 

Okay, but I don’t understand what it is you’re putting to death this time. Is it the “Hellbound Glory” name? Are you not gonna play with Shooter’s band anymore? 

Oh, no! I’m getting ready to make a record with Shooter’s band, just as soon as I can get in the studio. It’s the Hellbound Glory myth, or the Hellbound Glory spirit…whatever it is, we’re gonna kill it off on Halloween. And it’ll be back. Hellbound Glory will outlive all of them…All the big names in country music you hear about now, Hellbound Glory will be around long after they’re gone.

Um, okay. I’m trying to stick to my script here, which is always a bitch when I’m talking to you…

But we’re having fun, right? 

Oh, absolutely. Play a song for me.

Okay. I’ve been writing songs every day!

Trailer of Farce the Music · Leroy Virgil - Drinking On The Job

[Actually plays song.]

That’s pretty good. Your songwriting and vocal chops are right up there with your status as an agent of chaos and confusion. Care to comment?

Well, thank you very much. I put a lot of work into the last album, trying to get the vocals just right. I wasn’t born with the natural gift of a great voice, so I’ve really tried to work on it as much as I could…uh…yeah. I’m very proud of it. Thank you for saying that. 

But you do like to sow chaos and confusion? You’ve said as much before when we’ve talked. 

I just like to have fun. Always just smiling, and always having a good time. 

Uh-huh. So, when you say you’re going into the studio with Shooter’s band to make another record…can you just sorta tease out for us what the name will be on the album? Not the title of the album, but the name of the artist who’s making the record? 

(giggles) Hellbound Glory.

[Again, feeling like he’s been punk’d.] But you’re killing it off! 

It’ll be called “The Immortal Hellbound Glory.”

[Is quite sure of it, now.] Oooohhhh. Okay. 

Are you doing a ceremony again, with a coffin and sh*t, like last time? 

I don’t think…I don’t know. I might head up to Olympia (Wash.) Some friends up there are building a coffin. We might set it on fire, with a puppet in it. I haven’t decided yet; I don’t know. 

Kind of a spontaneous thing, I guess.  

So looking ahead to a 2021 we hope will be better than the current year, what’s next for Leroy Virgil/Leon V. Bowers/Neon Romilar?

Well, I think I want to get a podcast going. A Hellbound Glory podcast.

Yeah?

Yeah. Seems like a good medium to get into. 

All the cool kids are doing it. 

Yeah, you know. Talk about the band; talk about Hellbound Glory. The Hellbound Glory Podcast.

I’d listen. Of course, it might puzzle some people, what with the band name/myth getting snuffed Saturday night…

You know, I don’t mean to be confusing or conceited. It’s all in good fun. 

[Laughs]

But I will tell you a story. Have I ever told you about where the name “Hellbound Glory” came from?

I’m quite sure you haven’t.

About two months before I moved to Reno, I had a dream. It was about a hell-bound train, and the train was called “Hellbound Glory.” Isn’t that great?

The story’s a little shorter than I anticipated, but I can absolutely see a big, coal-huffing train with the name “Hellbound Glory” painted across the engine, spewing black smoke. 

It’s great, right?

-----------

Damn right, it’s great, Leon. Sorry to hear about your soon-to-be-dead band. We only mentioned it eleventeen thousand times. Hellbound Glory is Dead. Long Live Hellbound Glory. 

Buckle Up: Time for a chat with Leroy Virgil

By Kevin Broughton

If Hellbound Glory’s Leroy Virgil were a pop-culture figure from the 1970s, he’d be Kool-Aid Man, bursting through brick walls or backyard fences and spreading his own weird brand of merriment. In the 2000s, he’d be a different LEEroy, sowing chaos and damning the consequences. In the 2010s, he’s the famous Honey Badger, because he just doesn’t give a…care.

And it’s precisely that “ZFG” attitude that makes him immune from convention and all its strictures, allowing him – along with alter-ego and producer Shooter Jennings – to make one of the best pure country music albums in years.

Following 2017’s Pinball, Virgil already had his next record (a “concept album,” though as we’ll see it’s a loose thing with him) in mind. In fact, Bird Dog was more than halfway written when Virgil and Jennings decided on a course correction spurred by Jennings’ hearing a demo for “Neon Leon.” Bird Dog would go to the back burner. It would take several more months of waiting on the producer’s schedule to free up, but the seeds of Pure Scum were germinating.

Even so, the time window would be tight. Like, three days, tight. They did it in two.

“Leroy’s diligence and patience are the biggest reasons,” Jennings says. “He waited to cut the record. We were planning to do it at the end of 2018, but he had to wait because I had all these other records and projects that were on deadline. We ended up not doing it until April (of last year), and because he had all this material, he just sat around singing and playing it. Just being Leroy.”

The result of Virgil’s just being himself is an album at times rollicking, other times poignant but always genuine and faithful to any objective standards of country music. His vocals continue to impress.

“In my opinion, he’s one of the greatest singers and songwriters in all of country music and has been for a long time,” says Jennings. “Leroy has stayed true to country music the whole f*cking way. I love the guy; he’s one of my best friends in the whole world. And honestly, he’s like MY hero. He’s what I wish I could be as a singer and a songwriter.”

High praise from country royalty. Let’s hear from the artist himself.

Ladies and gentlemen, Leroy Jenkins.

I mean VIRGIL Leroy Virgil…

Pure Scum is a really catchy title for your new album. I guess “Corona Virus” was taken?

Haha! That’s funny. Perfect timing, huh? I gave it that title about a year and a half or two years ago. But yeah, Haha. It just came to me: pure scum, old highs, new lows, damaged goods, hellbound glory.

“Ragged But Alright” is a nice sort of manifesto to kick the record off. The protagonist describes himself, among other things, as a degenerate gambler who’s drunk every night, a scumbag and a braggart. So how’s your self-esteem these days?

Oh, I’m finding new ways of being humble every day. I actually stole that song, to make it even more scummy.

Oh, really?

Yeah, it’s from the 1920s.

You’re making this sh*t up.

No, really. It’s an old hillbilly song that’s in the public domain, so I took it and re-wrote it. It’s fine.

Who did it originally?

Everybody. Jerry Lee did it. George Jones did it. I forget the guy’s name who did it originally. Who cares who wrote the song; it’s just one of those that’s out there.

How biographical is this album, and did your mom really call you “Neon Leon?”

Uh, yeah…believe it or not, my name was gonna be “Neon Romilar.”

Neon what??

Neon Romilar. It’s a kind of cough syrup.

Okay…did Mom sober up before she signed the birth certificate?

I’m not sure. It depends on who you talk to.

Um, so the album: Autobiographical?

Oh! Yeah, without a doubt. It’s, uh…how do I put it? A reflection of my general style. Yeah. Maybe not “autobiographical,” but it is my style.

You did an interview with Rolling Stone just before Pinball was released and said about the title cut, “To me, it’s a song about life, the chaos of life.” This album’s fairly chaotic, too. Agree?

Ah, let me think about that. I don’t know, it’s a concept album, man.

What’s the concept, other than general scuzziness?

I think people just have to try to figure that out for themselves. If you listen closely to the lyrics in the songs, I think you’ll hear some similar themes pop up. You know…if you keep listening, you’ll get the themes, the concept.

Well, it all seems to fit together quite nicely.

Great! It’s all I listen to.

In the same interview, you said, “By listening to the album, people are going to have no idea how I feel — and I don’t want them to know.” How did you feel when you were writing these songs?

How did I feel? Well…how was I feeling…

Pretty damn good, actually. Pretty happy. Having a damn good time.

When we talked a couple of years ago, you mentioned that you had a steel player named Rico. You strongly implied that he was an illegal alien. Yet I recently came across a video of you, Shooter, Jon Anderson and Kelli Pickler at the Cash Cabin, having a good ole time.  One of the players – lap steel – was identified as “Rico Peterson, Hellbound Glory.” I’m glad to see he wasn’t deported. I also note that “Peterson” isn’t a name typically associated with illegal border crossings. Do you have a new Rico? That would be a coincidence.

Now I’ve got a Chuck, and he’s from America.

Yeah?

Yeah. Utah, in fact.

Is Rico not a thing anymore?

You know, Rico’s…He had a baby. He knocked some chick up and he has a baby now.

An anchor baby?

[Giggles, hard] Yeah. It was time to get off the road for a while. Haha! An anchor baby! Ol’ Rico, you know, I wish him nothing but the best. I hope he’s found himself a place to post up and do whatever he does.

Shooter produced this album. Did he put the players together again, and where did y’all record?

We recorded it in Echo Park in Hollywood, California. And it’s just Shooter’s band. And that’s it.

It’s really well put together. How much of it did y’all record live?

You know what? Almost all of it. All of the vocals are live vocals. Almost all of the instrumentation. We did all of it in two days; two short days.

How much input did Shooter have about which tracks made the album?

Shooter was there as a guide. In fact, Shooter’s the guy who kicked off the idea for the album. I sent him the song “Neon Leon,” and he said, “This is better than what we’re doing for Bird Dog [an album that originally was to follow Pinball], so let’s go with this; let’s make something out of this song.”

So I just put it together. Wrote the songs – they all had the same theme – demo’d them, sent them to Shooter, sent them to the band. And we just pretty much played what was on the demos.

I don’t want to date you or anything, but you’ve got one of the best voices in all of country music. In a perfect world, several of the cuts on Pure Scum would be radio-worthy, but you might be a little rough around the edges for the mainstream. If you could pick one or two folks to cover your stuff and get it into the mainstream, who would they be? I know you’ve mentioned Kid Rock ought to cover some of your stuff…

Yeah, you know Kid Rock and I wrote a song together called “Why Can’t They All Be College Girls.”

Of course you did…

And you know, I think somebody like Josh Abbott could do that song really well. I’ve been trying to get him to cover “Why Can’t They All Be College Girls” for a while. The whole Red Dirt scene? They could all use some hellbound influence. I’d like to do another Tanya Tucker cut; that would be cool.

I guess Billy Ray Cyrus is the biggest thing going in country music right now.

Yeah? I guess I missed that memo.

You didn’t hear about this hit song he was on with Lil Nas X? “Old Town Road?”

No. And I can never tell whether you’re yanking my chain or not.

No, I’m telling you the truth! That is Billy Ray Cyrus! He is on that song.

I’m just spitballin’. I’d be interested in some other scenes…instead of just this Reno Scumbag scene.

“Scumbag.” Maybe that could be a sub-genre of outlaw country or something.

Hell, yeah, it already is!

Is anybody in that sub-genre besides you?

Yeah! There are differing aspects. I hear the scumbag influence in a lot of the bands coming around. But the Reno thing: We’re all about scum. There’s a professional wrestling tag team named The Reno Scum, and they’ve been around for like 20 years. Look ‘em up: “Reno Scum.”

I think I’ll be looking up a lot of things when I get off the phone with you.

It’s a real thing, dude. I promise. If you’re into wrestling.

I used to be. Is there a Reno rock scene, or a Reno music scene, other than you?

I’d say I’m definitely the biggest game in town, as far as bands go.

Do you have a regular gig, or a residency anywhere?

You know, I had a residency at a place called Davidson’s Distillery, and I’m sure I’ll be back there soon. But as far as the regular Thursday night deal, I haven’t done that in a while.

You know, the pantywaists who call themselves country artists love to sing about drinking beer in their trucks. I wonder if any of them would cover “DUI or Die?”

Well, somebody might actually die if they did.

Can you think of the exposure you’d get if Luke Bryan covered one of your songs?

I think that would be awesome. You know I think “No Service” would be a song that somebody could do really well. Are you familiar with that song?

I am not.

Look it up.  It’s on Streets of Aberdeen. If somebody took that song and changed the beat up…it’s got great lyrics. Look it up: “No Service.”

So what’s the first single gonna be?

“Damned Angel.”

Good song.

You know what? That one is a f*cking great song.

Well, don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back, there, Leroy.

Ha! It’s just a good melody.

Oh, I know. It reminded me of something from the Urban Cowboy soundtrack…

Sweet!

…just a very big, full, almost “country-politan.” A really good country love song.

You know, I’m almost certain that I ripped it off from somewhere; I’m still trying to figure out who I stole it from. But it seems like it had to have already been taken. You know what I mean? Doesn’t that melody sound like it might be another song?

It does! It reminds me of something, I just can’t tell what.

Me, too.

It’ll come to you when you get sued. When you read the summons, you’ll say, “Aw, yeah. That’s the song I couldn’t place!”

Bring it on, I say. If Led Zeppelin can get away with it, Hellbound Glory can.

------

Pure Scum is out Friday.

Shooter Jennings & Leroy Virgil Perform "The White Trash Song"

Leroy Virgil of Hellbound Glory: The Farce the Music Interview

Leroy Virgil: The Farce the Music Interview

By Kevin Broughton

Americana. Roots music. Roots rock. Alt-country. Outlaw country. Interchangeable terms, when trying to classify the music we here at FTM try to promote – when we’re not busting on the mainstream “country” acts that pollute terrestrial radio airwaves. Sirius/XM has a channel dedicated to it. Number 60 on their satellite dial is “Outlaw Country,” and even in that niche you’ll find a lot of genre bending. 

Steve Earle, a bona fide second-generation pioneer of the outlaw scene, came right out with it on his most recent album. Always subtle, Earle planted the flag – one hopes to signify an emergence from a decade’s worth of political activism – and named his record So You Wanna Be An Outlaw. Because we needed to be reminded how much of an outlaw he is, one assumes. 

But if you asked Hellbound Glory’s Leroy Virgil, “Are you an outlaw?” he’d likely pause, ponder for a moment and say, “Sure!” with the happy grin of a kid about to play cowboys and Indians. And with the aid of a prodigious producer, he’s made probably the most outlaw album of the year. 

Pinball has Shooter Jennings’ fingerprints all over it. He even shot a clever tease video for pre-sales, featuring a menacing woman of Asian extraction and a masked goon in a Hawaiian shirt wielding a bat. The songs, though – excepting a couple of covers – are vintage Leroy Virgil: benders, binges, breakups and blues, with the occasional jaded comic’s view of society at large. 

“’Merica (The Good Ol’ Days)” kicks off the album in a brash, rollicking way. It’s a cynic’s state of the union – with citizens fueled by “alcohol and Adderall” – without being heavy-handed. There’s a wonderful cover of the elder Jennings’ “Six Strings Away,” but for my money the gem of this record is “Vandalism Spree,” the best white-trash love song since DBT’s “Zip City.” Somehow there’s a sweet and tender quality to the idea of burning down the Dairy Queen and maybe robbing a cash machine.  

To fully appreciate Hellbound Glory, though, you have to talk to Leroy. More accurately, ask a few questions then just take your hands off the wheel. You’re along for the ride. That’s all. More topically, the conversation is pinball-like. 

I think this is real. Let’s see where this goes.

Okay, is it pronounced “LEE-Roy” or  “L’roy?”

I don’t know, man, whichever is fine. Say it however you want to say it.

Well, how do you say it?

I say it differently every time it comes out of my mouth.

Well played. You’ve been on Shooter Jennings label for a while; is this the first record of yours he’s produced? I ask because the first time I listened to Pinball I heard echoes of his The Other Life album.

Well, a couple years ago we went out to Nashville to record some of the songs that are on this album, and it didn’t really come together. We just sat on the phones for a couple years and he finally hit me up a year ago and said, “Hey, let’s try again on this album.” And he picked the songs, put the band together and really called the shots. It’s been a lot of fun.

So the band he put together…well, let me back up. Y’all are fixin’ to kick off a tour together; will y’all be using the same band?

Yeah. They joined my band and I joined theirs.

Okay. So is Hellbound Glory kind of like Son Volt, which is Jay Farrar and whatever musicians happen to be playing with him at the time?

Well, yeah. A couple years ago, I decided to kill the band off. It was a sort of ritual on Halloween. I had a coffin. There was a guy dressed up as a priest. I didn’t want to go that far, but it was a very strange night. You know, out in the middle of nowhere, a strange, tiny bar…some burn victims…

Burn victims? 

Yeah, things got kinda crazy.

Yeah?

You know, that whole area is in this burial ground place where people came out during the Gold Rush and gave the Indians blankets that had smallpox on them so they could get to the gold faster. So they say that whole area is kind of cursed.

What could go wrong? 

Yeah. So it was kind of a heavy trip. 

I would think. Were you dosed?

(Giggles.) Well, I did some dosing, but I wasn’t dosed myself. 

For the record, what’s your birth name?

My birth name is Leon Virgil Bowers. 

Okay – and I’m jumping ahead in my questions here a little bit…I read your interview in Saving Country Music, where you talked about killing the name off. I’m curious, when you were a solo act under your birth name for a few years, was there confusion with the audiences? I ask because in the 70s when the Allman Brothers took a hiatus, Gregg and Dickey both did solo albums, but the latter billed himself on the record and tour as “Richard Betts.” Ticket and record sales underperformed as a result.

Oh, yeah. Lots of confusion, but I like to promote that kind of stuff. I just figured if I was gonna go out there with a different name, I might as well go with the name my mom gave me.  I never ended up putting out a record. The deal was I needed to do something different, because the people I was working with, they weren’t sure I could use the name “Hellbound Glory” at the time. 

Oh…okay.

So I had to change it. But it’s still up in the air. So, we’re still working on getting it worked out. 

Ah.

Well, not really working on it. I’m just playing in a band and calling it Hellbound Glory. 

You know, just in the first few minutes of this thing, I’m starting to see how you and Shooter might be drawn to each other…

Yeah, we’re like cousins.

...y’all both seem to like a little bit of chaos going on. So did y’all not even know each other at all until a couple years ago, and he reached out to you? 

Well, I was playing a gig in Reno at a place called Davidson’s, and he was playing right down the street at a Casino called Silver Legacy. So I just walked down and caught their sound check.  And we didn’t really make a connection, but then later he heard of me and heard my songs, and now he’s one of my biggest fans. 

Obviously. The characters in your songs are a collection of misfits – and that’s being kind. 

(Laughs) Yeah, degenerates!

Their attitudes range from cynical to fatalistic to carefree – and certainly aren’t shy about discussing their benders and binges.  What are they telling us about your general outlook on life?

Well…they’re just songs. They’re not me. I’d say this new album – I like the way it doesn’t end on a happy note. I guess it’s nihilistic in that way. But I’m not.

Oh, no. You did a symbolic, ritual killing-off of a band on a site where Indians got dosed with smallpox, but “nihilistic?” Nah. Please go on.

(Laughing) Well, I’m an artist. And a little bit skewed, I guess. But it’s the whole “Pinball” thing, you know? Life’s a game of pinball, where if you lose, you lose your soul. That’s kinda what I’m going for: staying in play as long as I can.  But there’s the chaos thing you mentioned. Sometimes it’s hard not to slip. You follow me?

Oh, yeah. I’ve been wearing this record out for the last three weeks. The line, “We could steal some Keystone beer from an A-rab liquor store” has made “Vandalism Spree” one of my favorite songs of the year. You’re not a politically correct fella, are you? 

Well, I didn’t realize it wasn’t politically correct. 

Come on!

I don’t even know what that song’s about. I don’t remember making it up. But there’s a lot of liquor stores run by…well, there’s a lot of liquor stores in Reno, and I’m friends with all of them. I don’t actually steal from them. (Giggles)

Do you think political correctness has taken some of the rough edges off of alt-country or outlaw music, and did you notice music being politicized in the genre last year and since? 

Huh, that’s a really good question, let me think about that one for a minute. You know, I’ve never really thought about that too much. I was told I was gonna get some backlash for that lyric when I first wrote it and started singing it. The people I was working with wanted me to change it, and I tried to change it…

What??

Yeah, I tried to change it but Shooter said he’d give me a Bitcoin if I left it the way it was…

I’m dying here…

…and now that Bitcoin is worth four thousand bucks. 

I’m gonna interview Shooter eventually and I’ll just get him to explain how that stuff works. It’s just so nebulous to me.

Yeah, I don’t know too much about it, either. I just passed it off to my ex-wife. I gave her all of it, just to hold onto for my kid. 

Well, that’s cool. If you can use it for child support it’s gotta be real, right? 

Well, I tried. I tried. But, no luck. She wanted real money.  But on the whole politics thing, I guess I’m just not smart enough to keep up with it. I’m more interested in what other people think. I guess it’s a good thing that people are venting and getting it out; maybe the pressure cooker will cool down a little bit.

Well, it’s either that or huffing spray paint and gasoline, like your guy in “Vandalism Spree.”

(Giggling) Yeah, exactly! There’s always that. But mostly I just follow what’s going on with the bands and music. 

Who are you listening to these days?

Wheeler Walker, Jr.

Of course.

I’ve been listening to him all day.

I haven’t heard his second album; the first was a work of brilliance.

It’s pretty good. It popped up – I had my music on “random,” and it popped up while I was driving my kid around and I tried to change it real fast and he was like, “What was that? Play it, play it!” So I had to.

How old is he?

My kid? He’s six.  I was hoping to get Wheeler to play his birthday party but I couldn’t make it happen. 

Maybe if you paid him in Bitcoin…

Bob Wayne. Are you familiar with Bob Wayne?

I’m not.

He’s pretty good. He’s a country artist who wrote some songs for Hank III.  You know, maybe I’ll get him to play my son’s birthday party. Seems a little more feasible. 

If you were granted one wish to change something about country music today, what would it be?

Well, I’d wish that I were at the top of it. I think I could do a lot of good for country music. 

For instance?

Well, it’s because my stuff is so real. It’s blues and it’s folk and it’s country. It’s all that…and maybe, I don’t know, maybe it’s too country.  I grew up in the country, and I can’t tell if [today’s music] is too country or not country enough. But it’s boring. Boring! Yeah, that’s what it is. 

That leads to my next question. In “That’s Just What I Am” you let folks know you aren’t from down South but still have country bona fides. No one who knows your work would dispute that. I’m curious what life was like growing up in rural Washington state, and whether you went on vandalism sprees from time to time.

(Laughs) You know, I bounced around quite a bit. By the time I was five years old, I had lived in California, Nevada, Utah and Washington. So I had lived pretty much all over the West, and I had also lived in Missouri and Arkansas by that time, too. I was all over the place.

But I grew up in Washington in the same town as Kurt Cobain, a little logging town called Aberdeen. My stepfather was an oyster farmer, so I had to spend every day after school at a farm. Just tromping around out in the woods – if I got in trouble at school I would have to go and work with him. I was always in a lot of trouble. (Laughs)

I was in so much trouble that if I was even halfway good during the week…I had to take a note to the office for them to say if I was bad or good. And if I was good, they’d give me ice cream. They chained me to my desk…

What? 

They made me make paper chains and chain myself to the desk. I’m working on a song called “Paper Chains.” It’s gonna be about divorce. Breaking paper chains. That’s country, huh? I think it’s pretty f*cking country. 

Yeah, man. You’re legit. Did you end up getting much ice cream?

Once or twice, as I remember. But the lady in the office I had to go down to with the note, she said I was her favorite student she ever taught. She told my aunt I was a good kid. So she liked me.  

When did you know that music was what you had to do for a living? 

Driving around with my stepdad and mom, going back to Aberdeen from Olympia, and Nirvana’s Nevermind had come out. My dad was playing it in the car because he knew Krist Novocelik, the bass player. And he said, “I can play this song; this is easy.” And I said, “No you can’t! You can’t play this!”

And we got back to the house and he grabbed a guitar and started playing all these Nirvana songs. And I figured if he could do it and they could do it, I could do it. 

And was that the first time you had picked up a guitar? 

Well, yeah, other than just picking up guitars around the house and d*cking around with them. 

Well, how old were you when Nevermind came out?

Let me think…I was 10.

Wow. So what are you, about 37?

I’m 36. 

Scrolling through the song titles during my first listen to Pinball, one jumped off the page. Guess which. It’s a cover

Hmmm. Let me think about the songs now…a cover. “Six Strings Away?” No, “Delta Dawn!”

Yes! I was in the second grade when Helen Reddy had a No. 1 hit with it, and had no idea until now that Tanya Tucker had done a version the year before. What in the world made you want to cut that one?

Tanya Tucker? I’d f*ck her. (Giggles for a while)

Oh my.

Someone requested it at a gig in Idaho, and we just started messing around with it. It just sounded so good that I just kept at it. But a few years ago I was married to a girl named Dawn. I’m not gonna say it was a tribute to her, but that’s how I just put my personal feelings into it. Know what I mean? I just think about her whenever I sing it. 

Do you remember the first time you heard the song? 

Right now I’m drawing a blank. 

Was it the Tanya Tucker or Helen Reddy version, if you recall?

The one that first jumped out at me was the one Waylon did.

That’s right! 

It was on a box set that, funnily enough, she (Dawn) bought me for Christmas, all those years ago. One of the best gifts I’ve ever gotten. 

Waylon covered a bunch of really good songs. 

What a great voice. 

What else you got going on? 

Right now I’m almost to Pittsburgh, on my way to a Shooter show in West Virginia. I’m not on the bill, but I am gonna get up and do a couple songs and promote my new thing. After this Pinball thing comes out I’m wanting to do a new project called Bird dog. 

Called what?

Bird Dawg – d-a-w-g. Songs about birds and dogs and p**sy and fishing.

Well, then.

I’ve got a bunch of pictures of dogs that I’m gonna autograph and sell, and all the money will go toward the album. I’ve got this song about mountain lions in Southern California. It’s…well, it’s not really a political song, but there’s a little bit of a message in it. It may be one of my most political songs ever. It’s about this mountain lion who can’t get back to his mate. 

Uh…

(Giggling)

Okay, I’ll bite. How is there a political message in that? 

Well, I’m not really…I’m just saying how it is, know what I mean?

Nope.

It’s from the perspective of the mountain lion. And he’s just talking about how all these humans have come along, and now he can’t cross the freeway. 

Can’t believe I didn’t pick up on something so obvious.

It’s my favorite song to sing right now.

Do you have a rough cut of it you could send me? For my ears only?

Sure! Be happy to. I need to demo it anyway. 

Cool. Well, before we get to the project about birds and dogs and other favorite things, what do you have lined up tour-wise?

I cannot wait. I’m so excited to get out on the road and start playing songs and seeing all my fans and hanging out. I’m really looking forward to getting back out there. 

I just landed a song in a movie, so I’m gonna take that money and get a cop car and just tour in that…

Wait. What? 

Yeah, me and Rico.

(Getting the feeling this has all been an Andy Kaufman-level put-on) Who’s…who’s Rico?

Rico…he’s not with me right now. He just moved out of my house, he was living in my spare bedroom. By the way, I’ve got an awesome house. 

Yeah?

It overlooks all of Reno. I can see the whole entire town. It sits on top of a hill. And it’s filled with pinball machines. For Rico. He’s my steel guitar player.

But he’s a real person, right? Not an imaginary friend or an alternate personality? (Serious question at this point)

No, he’s…if I’m the Lone Ranger, he’s Tonto. But he’s not here right now. He…he doesn’t have an I.D., so he can’t get on an airplane…

Is he undocumented?

(Cackling) Yeah, you know, sometimes I wish they would ship him back. But he’s worked for me for a long time, and we’ve got chemistry. He and I have some really good chemistry you just don’t find every day. I’m really not that big a fan of his playing, but you don’t mess with what works. 

:-/

But you know we’ve toured together as just a duo, playing to really big crowds. Like the White Stripes or the Black Keys.

My beef with the White Stripes was always – was it Jack White’s sister? – well, the (in air quotes) DRUMMER couldn’t really play the drums.

Yeah, I was never a big fan, either. 

Well, when you said you weren’t a huge fan of his playing, I thought, “Well, maybe the White Stripes comparison was appropriate.”

It sounds really rudimentary. But for me it’s his voice that gets really annoying. 

(Fairly certain he’s talking about Jack White, not “Rico,” but who knows at this point?)

I like something a little more pleasing to the ear.

So, you’ll be supporting Shooter, using his band for the next couple weeks, then when you do the actual Hellbound Glory tour it’ll just be you and Rico?

To be honest with you, I have no idea. I’ve got a couple gigs lined up in Reno. I play every Thursday at this place called Davidson’s Distillery. The best way I can describe it is it’s like something out of a Fellini movie. It would blow your mind. 

I’m not sure anything you tell me could now, Leroy…

It’s like Reno 911. So if you’re ever in Reno, I’m there every Thursday. I’ll be playing there for many years. If you’re ever in Reno on a Thursday you should definitely come hang out.

* * *

The whole exchange had a Reno 911 feel to it, and it’s easy to assume you’ve been clowned after such a ride – or rhetorical pinball game. Finishing up the transcript the notion nagged, so I reached out with a text.

As fate would have it, as I was texting him he was at that moment reciprocating. Turns out it was just lots of coffee. The Mountain Lion song is real, and it’s awesome. Leroy Virgil is real and adorably kooky. The goofy outlaw just made a great record. 

Even without Rico. 

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Pinball is available today.

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